NTK 24300 Calibration

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secure
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:38 am

NTK 24300 Calibration

Post by secure »

I'm in a dillema. I would like to clear that.
I have changed two innovate units because of their accuracy.
Now I have ordered NTK L1H1 which came with NTK 24300 label.
It has 5-wires and i believe it is L2H2(Yellow,Blue,Grey,Black,White) rather than L1H1.(White,Yellow,Orange,Red,Black)
Anyway, no problem here.
I'm running both Innovate and NTK 24300 right now and they have some differences measuring the AFr.
As you can see the in the logs NTK response is much better than Innovate but it has some differences.(ignore the afr spikes it is an innovative glitch)

So I'm not sure which is the right calibration of the sensor. Do I need to calibrate according to L1H1 or L2H2?
I have also found some calibrations on the web which does not suit each other.

http://www.efitechnology.com/documents/ ... ctions.pdf
http://mycomputerninja.com/~jon/www.pgm ... andO2.html

They don't suit each other. Before uninstalling the innovate I want to set an accurate calibration for NTK.

Cheers
2009-11-09 21-12-56 S6#0167.SD
NTK 24300 vs. Innovate LC1
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pat
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Re: NTK 24300 Calibration

Post by pat »

Cuneyt,

You won't find a calibration for the NTK sensor on the Internet because they're all voltage related, whereas the "reading" from a UEGO sensor is the ion pump current. The sensor current normally enters a transimpedance amplifier, the output of which is then a voltage that's proportional to the ion pump current and thus measurable by an ADC. There is no guarantee that our transimpedance amplifier will have the same characteristics as anyone else's so simply using some other manufacturer's curve is highly deprecated. If you want to use an unknown sensor then calibrate it yourself; we have a tube which has three lambda bosses in it, one for a reference sensor and two for a pair of NTKs going into an S8; the tube has two additional holes, one tiny to allow air in very slowly and a larger one to feed in an inert gas to dilute the oxygen concentration in the tube.

Hope this helps,

Pat.
secure
Posts: 254
Joined: Tue Apr 21, 2009 7:38 am

Re: NTK 24300 Calibration

Post by secure »

Anyone killed NTK 24300 yet?
What are the symptoms of dodgy sensor?
I think 13 years of running this sensor ended on a mountain trip with my family.
Car suddenly went to 9.2 AFR. It shaked the engine but never lift off, never stopped the engine(heavy snow storm) :mrgreen:
Thanks to syvecs and my carpc I could disable the closed loop fueling there and noticed that the engine is actually not running that rich.
I think Syvecs closed loop was trying to lean the engine so the engine shaked for some.
It looks like the sensor is out of scale. At part throttle it goes to 9.2 AFR and at lift of it is 16 AFR max. Normally it reads between 11.5 and 24 AFR.
Anyway I'm back to home safe. I'll investigate the problem.
RICE RACING
Posts: 452
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Re: NTK 24300 Calibration

Post by RICE RACING »

secure wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:09 pm Anyone killed NTK 24300 yet?
What are the symptoms of dodgy sensor?
I think 13 years of running this sensor ended on a mountain trip with my family.
Car suddenly went to 9.2 AFR. It shaked the engine but never lift off, never stopped the engine(heavy snow storm) :mrgreen:
Thanks to syvecs and my carpc I could disable the closed loop fueling there and noticed that the engine is actually not running that rich.
I think Syvecs closed loop was trying to lean the engine so the engine shaked for some.
It looks like the sensor is out of scale. At part throttle it goes to 9.2 AFR and at lift of it is 16 AFR max. Normally it reads between 11.5 and 24 AFR.
Anyway I'm back to home safe. I'll investigate the problem.
I have eluded to this in videos as its something people maybe miss?
Generally speaking its a good idea to have your percentages of min max correction set to a band that is 'acceptable' adjustment range be that at high loads of normal low load engine operation, anything outside of that is pegged.

Am going to offer soon off the shelf bespoke calibrated NTK sensors, just working on setting up a deal with NGK/NTK directly to try my best to bring the price point down to an acceptable level that makes this more attractive to the masses (general users), stay tuned.
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RICE RACING
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Re: NTK 24300 Calibration

Post by RICE RACING »

Ok, we keep stock of these 'custom NTK' sensor in boxes of 10 as below. These are a plug & play using the stock connector for any Syvecs kit. It takes a couple of days to turn around for those interested.
Every sensor is logged and validated. Pertinent info kept on file is date calibrated and conditions when it was done
  • Baro pressure
    Temperature
  • Relative humidity
    % O2 in air
  • Accuracy to laboratory grade NTK
These will be available in stock to dealers and end users alike, you can contact Syvecs Dealer or myself for pricing.
Once you have the sensor, email the serial number on the unit to obtain the linearization file to upload to your sensor database.
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Re: NTK 24300 Calibration

Post by RICE RACING »

This is digging back a looooooong time ago !
But still good information, so in 2008? I had a customer complain that the Neko AF-700 was out 1 AFR v his dyno meter, the thing was mounted in the turbine exit (high pressure point) v the tail pipe probe on the dyno meter, this was also an old LSM-11 type which was common lower cost more durable day to day sensor for shops to use, could be molested Fritzl style for years without much thought.
We simply made a test probe and put on an OEM consistent car and repeated multiple tests on same hour, this car when run with one meter would do back to back results you could not see difference in traces, so swapping out the meter type was valid to tell differences. We ran the $1000 true lab grade NTK sensor in the test meter then followed up by the bespoke EPROM Motorsport NTK (NEKO meter) you can see the results, pretty close to each other.
It is funny over the years doing so much of this you forget just the sheer qty of information and some times need to revisit it all! Especially now knowing more of how these things work and why and what can influence and end users results when measuring at different points in an exhaust especially.
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Re: NTK 24300 Calibration

Post by RICE RACING »

:shock:
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