Throttle calibration

scott
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 10:27 am

Throttle calibration

Post by scott »

I'm unsure if I have an issue or not here......

The car idles just fine, AFR sitting around 15. When I press the throttle, even just a tiny bit, the revs drop and the car almost stalls. If I keep the throttle down, it cuts the engine altogether. There is no rise of RPM at all, it just falls right out. What could this be down to?

For information, I have no wideband or o2 sensor of any sort connected.

Any recommendations for what area to look in? I'm just trying to make sure I don't have any faults before putting everything together permanent. I need to be able to roll the car closer to the house in order to get a wifi signal for remote mapping.

Thanks for any help :)
pavlo
Zen Performance
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:18 am

Re: Throttle calibration

Post by pavlo »

Fuel map.
scott
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 10:27 am

Re: Throttle calibration

Post by scott »

pavlo wrote:Fuel map.
Is this something my mapper will have to sort then? As I'm between a rock and a hard place. If I can't get any revs at all then I can't get the car closer to the house to get a wireless signal in order for him to start mapping it.

The AFR doesn't seem to rise or fall when I press the accelerator, it's an instant stall.
pavlo
Zen Performance
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:18 am

Re: Throttle calibration

Post by pavlo »

It's all rather basic stuff and it all needs to work before mapping.

Does your TPS sensor work? If it doesn't, that will cause the problem.

Do all your sensors work? This is something for YOU to check. TPS, MAP, ECT are the main ones.

Why isn't your wideband installed or connected to the ECU? Do not expect any remote mapping without one!

To me it sounds like the fuel map is just too far off to run properly. Just because you only need to move the car a little doesn't excuse the fact the engine needs sufficient fuelling to run at say 2000rpm with a little load. In your position you should pay for someone to come to the car IMHO.
scott
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 10:27 am

Re: Throttle calibration

Post by scott »

pavlo wrote:It's all rather basic stuff and it all needs to work before mapping.

Does your TPS sensor work? If it doesn't, that will cause the problem.

Do all your sensors work? This is something for YOU to check. TPS, MAP, ECT are the main ones.

Why isn't your wideband installed or connected to the ECU? Do not expect any remote mapping without one!

To me it sounds like the fuel map is just too far off to run properly. Just because you only need to move the car a little doesn't excuse the fact the engine needs sufficient fuelling to run at say 2000rpm with a little load. In your position you should pay for someone to come to the car IMHO.
I'm assuming the TPS works, it was working before I installed the ECU so I would say yes. MAP sensor is brand new, supplied by Ryan. Coolant temp sensor is definitely OK as without it the car won't even crank.

Wideband isn't installed as I don't have the pins to connect it to the ECU. This is in hand though as someone has kindly sent me some out, this will be rectified soon.

I'm not really sure we are on the same page with what I am talking about though. The car is idling at 1000rpm, if I touch the throttle... even slightly, the revs die out and the car stalls. There is no increase at all, its not as if the car gets to 1100rpm and then leans out and dies. It feels like the pedal is actually a fuel cut switch. If I let off quickly enough (10ths of a second) it'll recover and keep idling, if not it'll die out.

I'm happy to have a look around at things and I'm fairly confident that if I was given a step for a hint I'd be able to get it working. I like being hands on, I built my car from scratch with very little experience and have enjoyed every minute of it. I bought a Syvecs and joined the forum for help with the very basics of getting the car ready to map. Saying to get someone else in to help me out is a little unfair, and not really the reason for this forum I would have though.
TimH
JT Innovations
Posts: 719
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:51 pm

Re: Throttle calibration

Post by TimH »

What engine? There's probably a base map available.
stevieturbo
Posts: 1352
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:04 pm

Re: Throttle calibration

Post by stevieturbo »

scott wrote:I'm unsure if I have an issue or not here......

The car idles just fine, AFR sitting around 15. When I press the throttle, even just a tiny bit, the revs drop and the car almost stalls. If I keep the throttle down, it cuts the engine altogether. There is no rise of RPM at all, it just falls right out. What could this be down to?

For information, I have no wideband or o2 sensor of any sort connected.

Any recommendations for what area to look in? I'm just trying to make sure I don't have any faults before putting everything together permanent. I need to be able to roll the car closer to the house in order to get a wifi signal for remote mapping.

Thanks for any help :)
So AFR is at 15 at idle....yet you've no wideband or 02's of any kind. Bit of a contradiction there ?

And as Paul says, if you cant even confirm the basic setup/installation is correct, any notion of remote mapping is just mental.
scott wrote: I'm assuming the TPS works, it was working before I installed the ECU so I would say yes. MAP sensor is brand new, supplied by Ryan. Coolant temp sensor is definitely OK as without it the car won't even crank.

Wideband isn't installed as I don't have the pins to connect it to the ECU. This is in hand though as someone has kindly sent me some out, this will be rectified soon.

I'm not really sure we are on the same page with what I am talking about though. The car is idling at 1000rpm, if I touch the throttle... even slightly, the revs die out and the car stalls. There is no increase at all, its not as if the car gets to 1100rpm and then leans out and dies. It feels like the pedal is actually a fuel cut switch. If I let off quickly enough (10ths of a second) it'll recover and keep idling, if not it'll die out.

I'm happy to have a look around at things and I'm fairly confident that if I was given a step for a hint I'd be able to get it working. I like being hands on, I built my car from scratch with very little experience and have enjoyed every minute of it. I bought a Syvecs and joined the forum for help with the very basics of getting the car ready to map. Saying to get someone else in to help me out is a little unfair, and not really the reason for this forum I would have though.
As for assuming TPS or other sensors work. We all know what assumptions are....it was mentioned in a popular film.

There should be no assumptions, go live with the ecu, check and calibrate where necessary. Taking any other approach...go back to the mental comment.
Just because something worked and was setup correctly for a totally different ecu, does not mean it will be correct now when you simply plug in a totally new and different ecu.

And the car wont even crank without the coolant temperature sensor fitted ??? Something sounds very wrong there.

We dont even know what engine, what ecu, who wired it, is it pnp, what map you might even be trying to use, whether any sensors in use have been calibrated etc etc, or where on planet earth you are so that some local help might be available.

I think the suggestion about getting someone in to look at it is very sensible. Trying to help remotely when information forthcoming is vague and in bits and pieces is almost impossible.


All wiring diagrams are available online on the forum, as are some basic manuals. They should at least assist you to give some information that might lead to getting remote help.
pavlo
Zen Performance
Posts: 409
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:18 am

Re: Throttle calibration

Post by pavlo »

So we don't even know if the MAP sensor is properly calibrated!

I know exactly what you are describing. And it could be because the map is fundamentally wrong, when you open the throttle just a little the manifold pressure rises, and if there isn't enough fuel at that high MAP it WILL stall.

Seriously you are wasting peoples time with such vague information when things could be fundamentally wrong. Get your laptop out, connect to it, speak to someone on the phone who can run you through the fundamentals. Or pay the money and get someone that can do it and probably get it set up and running nicely in about 15 minutes if they are there with the car.
scott
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 10:27 am

Re: Throttle calibration

Post by scott »

Right friendly bunch here eh. I would happily give all information required..... if I knew what information to give in the first place. I could sit and detail every little thing on the car, but that would be like writing war and peace when the information could be completely useless.

Feel free not to help me if you feel that my plight is completely pointless. I'm happy to start off with the very basics, but as there isn't a manual I thought I would ask on here what the basics are. I've connected up my laptop and had a look through the menu's, but without any guides being available on what to look at/do I thought it made sense to ask on the forum where people are using/familiar with it.

It's like arguing about what came first.... the chicken or the egg. Can you guys not just give me a break and at least try to be constructive? If I haven't given information, it's because I don't know what information to give. Now that you have given me a step for a hint as to what you require I'll try and be more informative. Feel free to not bother responding if I am wasting your time, I asked for help.... you don't need to give it or even reply if you don't wish to. I'm only looking to get it to a state where I can physically move the car in order for Ryan to get a remote map on it to drive down to him. I don't know many tuners here (Glasgow), very few that I would trust as far as I could throw them and I certainly don't know any that are familiar with Syvecs, let alone who would do a house call without charging an arm and a leg for something that you are all saying is a doddle.


Specifics....

1996 Toyota Supra MKIV, Facelift Pre-VVTi Manual with the 3.0L 2JZ-GTE engine.
Precision Billet 6765 turbo
Bosch 900cc injectors (high impedance, no resistor pack)
ECU was bought second hand and came with a harness adapter to make it plug and play. Mapped for a similar supra but not the same setup. Base map tweaked by Ryan and re-loaded by myself.
3 bar Map sensor supplied by Ryan.
Oil pressure sensor not wired into ECU (need pins)
Oil temp sensor not wired into ECU (need pins)
Wideband snesor not wired into ECU (need pins)
As for assuming TPS or other sensors work. We all know what assumptions are....it was mentioned in a popular film.

There should be no assumptions, go live with the ecu, check and calibrate where necessary. Taking any other approach...go back to the mental comment.
Just because something worked and was setup correctly for a totally different ecu, does not mean it will be correct now when you simply plug in a totally new and different ecu.
Sounds great, any tips on how I do this? Going live with the ECU is not an issue. Checking and calibrating I can't find any guides on though, this is exactly the sort of information I am looking for.
And the car wont even crank without the coolant temperature sensor fitted ??? Something sounds very wrong there.
I may be getting mixed up here. But I believe the coolant temp sensor being broken stops the engine from cranking. It may be that it stops it from firing though, I'm going off the top of my head here based on previous experience. But yes, it's perfectly normal for the Supra not to crank or fire when the sensor is broken.
We dont even know what engine, what ecu, who wired it, is it pnp, what map you might even be trying to use, whether any sensors in use have been calibrated etc etc, or where on planet earth you are so that some local help might be available.
I'm hoping I've covered that above but if not.... 2JZ-GTE, Syvecs S6, harness adapter made by Ryan to plug and play into Supra loom, the map that was on it with a few tweaks by Ryan to iron out the idling issues (removed the oil pressure trip and added a little more fuel at the idle I believe), no sensors have been specifically calibrated on the ECU, this is what I'm looking for guidance on how to do, I'm near Glasgow.
I think the suggestion about getting someone in to look at it is very sensible. Trying to help remotely when information forthcoming is vague and in bits and pieces is almost impossible.
I understand that it may be difficult with the vague information, but I hope I have explained my situation. I am completely green with this and wanting to learn, I was not sure what information would be relevant so thought I would wait to see what was required. I also understand that from the outside it may look like I'm a bit of a lost cause, I can only say that I am very proficient with a PC and I'm a very fast learner, I just need to understand the operation of the software and I should be off and running.
All wiring diagrams are available online on the forum, as are some basic manuals. They should at least assist you to give some information that might lead to getting remote help.
I've gone through all the guides that I have managed to find on here. I've got...

S6GP Pinouts and Wiring
Syvecs Software Basic Manual
New SSuite

If there is something I have missed then I apologise. Having read through them all they explain the navigation of the menus etc, but there is no explanation of actual calibration procedures. Eg, when I go into the TPS and want to calibrate it..... what do I actually do? I'm guessing that once you know how to do one, the rest come in fairly similar?
So AFR is at 15 at idle....yet you've no wideband or 02's of any kind. Bit of a contradiction there ?
It may seem that way, but I have a standalone LC-1 wideband setup. I had asked Ryan about connecting one of the analogue outputs to the Syvecs but he suggested having it's own standalone sensor would be better. I bought the sensor which came with the plug and pins for the plug, but no pins for the ECU. I've now got these coming to me thanks to Tim so I should be able to connect it no problem. I'm not interested in mapping it to drive the car, only to drive it 30 yards so that I can get a wireless signal to my car from the house.
And as Paul says, if you cant even confirm the basic setup/installation is correct, any notion of remote mapping is just mental.
I physically can and I believe I have the mental ability to do it. All I need is some basic instructions to put me on the right path.

I'm simply looking to check/calibrate all sensors on the car so that I can limo the car up to the house and let Ryan do his thing remotely. The last thing I want is for Ryan to dial in and I've got 100 things that I need to do before he even begins. Believe it or not the last thing I want to do is waste any ones time.

I would appreciate any help on the basics of setting up the ECU. I'm happy with the navigation etc, but if someone could explain the procedure for checking/calibrating a sensor then that would be great.

Thanks
Last edited by scott on Mon May 19, 2014 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
scott
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun May 19, 2013 10:27 am

Re: Throttle calibration

Post by scott »

Here is a link to my setup/install etc for anything I've missed.
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