2003 Ford Focus RS - sensors question ?

[Jackstrath]

Hi all!

Im Jack , from Aberdeen , i have a 2003 ford focus RS , it was running standard ECU for a few years but a few engine failures has high lighted the need for a better ECU , so iv bought a S6 GP.

its a bit of a dinosar in terms of computing power (no fancy diffs ect) but its a decent spec , running a full built motor , was up at 500bhp on the ford ECU reving to 7000rpm (couldnt get the ford ECU to rev higher , engine was built to rev to 8300rpm) has external oil pump , gtx30 , water meth injection , ID1000's , nortech manifold , full 3" system , all fiber kevlar body pannels ect

I dont plan on fitting it my self , im not the best when it comes to electrics , so will have the person thats mapping the ECU help me , but untill we get started i have a few questions

Will the zetec stock sensors work ? cam crank boost controler ect?

Im going over to COP , using toyota yaris coils , as i dont think the ECU can run fords wasted spark set up with out the need of an external ignition amp , right thing to do ?

I have a rather expensive Stack dash set up in the car, have various sensors that feed it aux info , this will all get bined and replaced with a little digi dash thats fed from the ECU , but i would like the ECU to be able to monitor the other imputs ? i currently have the stack ST747 sensors for the fuel and oil pressure , and the standard brass stack temp sensors , will these work with the new ECU or will i have to go over to syvecs spec ones?

also have a stack wide band fitted but im sure its a bocsh lambda , so am i right in saying il have to swap out to the NTK one?

Also have the stack digi EGT gauge , again will i be able to use the sensor to feed the ECU or will i have to buy a stack one?

below are a few photos of the sensors and a few of the car
IMG_7675 by Jack Strathdee, on Flickr

IMG_7680 by Jack Strathdee, on Flickr

IMG_7674 by Jack Strathdee, on Flickr

e3 by Jack Strathdee, on Flickr

IMG_7076 by Jack Strathdee, on Flickr

IMG_7085 by Jack Strathdee, on Flickr

IMG_7747 by Jack Strathdee, on Flickr



Like i said i have very little knowlage of this kinda stuff , so please be kind!

[stevieturbo]

1. Pretty sure all OEM sensors will be fine. The ecu is very flexible.

2. Not sure which coil pack your car uses. If it is EDIS, then no good. If it is a regular 4 tower inductive coil...then no, unless you also fit an external amplifier. I dont think Ford did any 4 towers with a built in amp, although that sort of coil could be used directly.
But yes moving to coil on plug with the Yaris coils would be a good move and gets rid of the need for HT leads.

3. I would see no issue with the ST747 sensors you are using as they appear to be a normal 5v powered sensor. The brass 2 wire....would probably be easier to replace these, unless you can find a suitable calibration for the sensor.
It looks like you're using that for coolant temp etc

Bosch NTC sensor is a commonly used liquid temp sensor and available very cheaply.

http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/media/ca ... 739pdf.pdf
Oddly same part number comes up as a very common sensor fitted to some Rovers etc, so very cheap. ( I use this myself )

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-0280130 ... xy039TMwRp

4. You could wire the 0-5v output from your wideband and send that to an analogue input on the S6. But really...dont bother, use the Syvecs supplied NTK and onboard controller. It will be safer.
If you want, just retain your own as a dedicated visual gauge.

5. If the EGT is a regular K-type thermocouple then it should be fine to connect to the S6. Obviously you cannot connect this to 2 devices at the same time.

Should probably add charge air temp to this too. Again there will be many options, I use the one found on Cossies etc, the ATS04

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RS-Cosworth-W ... SwBahVGQTo


Syvecs of Tim/JTI would be able to supply suitable sensors in a different thread if necessary though.

With all of the above, you will be able to make use of the superb engine safety features.

[Jackstrath]

Hello!

Thanks for getting back to me ! That's good new about the pressure sensors as they were a £100 odd quid I'm sure each , and seeing how they are already fitted saves me a bit of mucking about

Also good that the Ford sensors will work , I was doing a bit of looking and the boost controller that syvecs sell looks near identical to the Ford one.

And I forgot to say I have a temp sensor already, very similar to the coast one you linked to!

Only bummer is the temp sensors (which I have water and oil) they are on a npt thread , and that sadly can't be changed very easily, I had a look on Bosch motorsports website and couldn't see one with a npt thread sadly so will have a look on

Yeh having a ecu that can monitor knock is a big plus , this is the standard ecu's biggest down side sadly

I hope to get the ecu set up in such a way any of the mentioned aux' imputs drops bow a threshold the car will basically shut down rather than fight on while self destructing its self

[stevieturbo]

Hello!

Thanks for getting back to me ! That's good new about the pressure sensors as they were a £100 odd quid I'm sure each , and seeing how they are already fitted saves me a bit of mucking about

Also good that the Ford sensors will work , I was doing a bit of looking and the boost controller that syvecs sell looks near identical to the Ford one.

And I forgot to say I have a temp sensor already, very similar to the coast one you linked to!

Only bummer is the temp sensors (which I have water and oil) they are on a npt thread , and that sadly can't be changed very easily, I had a look on Bosch motorsports website and couldn't see one with a npt thread sadly so will have a look on

Yeh having a ecu that can monitor knock is a big plus , this is the standard ecu's biggest down side sadly

I hope to get the ecu set up in such a way any of the mentioned aux' imputs drops bow a threshold the car will basically shut down rather than fight on while self destructing its self

Why would you not just use the OEM coolant temp sensor ? It's probably a standard Bosch NTC curve anyway. The stack ones may well be usable, but you'd just need to confirm they give sensible readings when in use, or else sort out your own calibration for the sensors.

There will be people who sell NPT sensors too though and who could supply some sort of scaling to use.

And the safeties go far beyond knock, and best for most is just to force a limp mode when things arent behaving as expected. When all setup correctly, it will keep a very close eye on things and it should be very difficult to cause real harm.

And a "boost controller" implies multiple parts. It sounds like you're just referring to the actual solenoid ? Many solenoids can be used, I dont see any good details of what you're using though. Either the N75 type or MAC solenoid arent overly expensive though if you had to change.

[Jackstrath]

I was hoping to use both OEM coolant sensor and the one pictured , and the 2nd one is in the sump (no oem oil temp)

The reason behind this is the oem one is in a air jacket in the head, so it's not a true water temp your getting (normally a bit higher) I added the one in the thermostat housing to give me a true water temp reading, issue is if you burst a pipe the water temp sensor will go up to the "last known" water temp that passed over it and that's all it will display , where as the oem will keep reading hotter and hotter at a much quicker rate , I'm not to fussy tbh if I was to bin one it would be the one I have added , was thinking I could input it to the ecu as a diff temp or something

Yeh sorry the boost controller term , my bad I though I had already mentioned that in the first post but looks like I forgot.
It's the standard boost solenoid, it's extremely similar to the one on syvecs page , has the same Bosch (I think?) injector style plug on it, so I think I should be ok there , if not it's another to add to the list I guess


I have a question about the coil on plug setup , my coils have 4 wired plugs , signal , 12v , ground and igf , my ford has the 3 wire coil pack , iv read that you just bin the iGF pin (blank it) , but will I need to run signal wires for each coil , from the ecu to the coil pack ? And just take the 12v and ground from the old coil pack feed ? (Told you I'm a complete amiture!)

Thanks !

[stevieturbo]

I would be very very surprised if any OEM car ran a coolant temp sensor in air. That would be very bizarre and basically would not work reliably.

If you log cooling system pressure, you can cover for too high pressure, and too low, eg if a HG was failing or a burst pipe via the safety

Yes you will need 1 trigger wire for each coil from the ecu.

The 12v feed from the existing coil could supply the new coils. The main ground could also provide a ground for the new coils.

If 4 wire, the coils may also require a sensor ground which is part of the triggering for the coils. Again 1 wire here would do for all 4 coils. If 3 wire with built in amps, they probably just use the power ground instead for this reference

I havent used your specific coil, so you'd need to investigate that for proper wiring. Bound to be wiring diagrams somewhere.

[Jackstrath]

yeh the focus does , its a bit strange, guess its more of a cylinder head temp sensor rather than a coolant ?

i cant log coolant system pressure although it is something im looking at maybe doing , for the reasons you say ,

Ok dokie , il have a dig about and see what i can find with regards to the coils

Thank you very much for your help ! have cleared up a good few questions and i apprechiate that!

[Jackstrath]

ok so a little up date!

Happy new year all!

Turns out december was mega busy work wise and jan is looking to be the same! but i fired on and got a bit done with the focus!

Removed my old dash set up !

Untitled by Jack Strathdee, on Flickr

Fair amount of cable came out with that!

Untitled by Jack Strathdee, on Flickr

Hoping to sell it and buy a new dash making use of the CAN function. any recomendations ?



so i started to make a new loom for all the aux sensors for the syvecs, this included , Knock , water and oil temp , fuel and oil pressure , all was going well untill i went to wire the mini sure seal conncector for the pressure sensors

Untitled by Jack Strathdee, on Flickr

i thought they were only 2 wire sensors , idiot i am , i never wired the original loom as you got adaptors from stack for the dash ,so offcourse iv only ran 2 cable to go to each of these sensors now going to have to pull apart the nice braded heat strinked loom to add 2 more cables

here is the stack sensor tech spec

Untitled by Jack Strathdee, on Flickr

what does pin 1 do ? out put from the sensor ? do they need all 3 wires? Is it 0V as a earth , 5V from the ECU and the output is the result from that 5V ? (told you im simple! haha!)

are the pressure sensors listed on JTI just 2 wire sensors?

any way to finish on a high i did the coil on plug loom , took ages , but im more than happy with how it looks! hopefully it works!

Untitled by Jack Strathdee, on Flickr


Thanks!

[stevieturbo]

Pretty much all sensors for pressure etc are 3 wire as already mentioned.

0v is sensor ground, NOT power ground.

Pin 1 in your case will go to the relevant AN input you wish to use. Pretty much any of them will do.

Pin2 is the 5v reference voltage.

Whilst you can get some crude old 2 wire pressure sensors, they are not really something you would ever want to be using for engine control stuff, although they're kind of common for oil pressure gauges. The big ugly looking gold can sensors.

Most temperature sensors are generally 2 wire, 0v sensor ground and a signal wired to the relevant AN input ( this input will usually have to have the option of an internal pullup resistor, take note of the manual/instructions )

[Jackstrath]

steve ! thanks again for your help! looks like im going to be opening up that loom and adding some more wires ! doh!