Cam slot or thoot?
Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:10 pm
I wonder how the setting changes if I have a cam sensor (Hall) that is reading a single slot or a single thoot, how do I set each of them?
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Re: Cam slot or thoot?
Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:13 pm
This is a Pat Question. He is the Guru of Trigger settings!
Re: Cam slot or thoot?
Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:09 pm
can you ask him to have a lock at it, please?
Re: Cam slot or thoot?
Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:47 pm
Whether you have a slot or a tooth, you should still get two edges from the hall effect sensor, one on approach and one on departure, quite what effect this has on the signal itself is highly application and sensor dependant. The best option is to just use the synclog to see what you're getting from the sensor. Ie is it normally +5V and drops down to 0V when it sees the slot / tooth or does it sit at 0V normally and go up to +5V ? You will be able to see this in the synclog. I cannot predict which way it will go because I've seen just about every combination possible in the past (and some that are impossible, LOL), so I can't say "set it to XYZ" because I just don't have enough information to do so.
With VR sensors it is normally best to use the fastest edge possible, but hall sensors tend to be reasonably matched on both edges. If you can see one edge is quicker than the other from the hall sensor then use that edge. If both edges are similar then choose one and see how much cam drift your get (bring up a gauge for camRaw), then try the other edge. If one edge shows less drift than the other, it's a good bet to go with it.
Sorry I can't offer any more concrete help, if you can provide some more detailed information then I can make further suggestions. All I can say for now is to connect the sensor to an AU input and set the input configuration to Thermistor to turn on the pull up resistor, this should give the cleanest signal. Once we see the signal we can work out what to do with it
Cheers,
Pat.
With VR sensors it is normally best to use the fastest edge possible, but hall sensors tend to be reasonably matched on both edges. If you can see one edge is quicker than the other from the hall sensor then use that edge. If both edges are similar then choose one and see how much cam drift your get (bring up a gauge for camRaw), then try the other edge. If one edge shows less drift than the other, it's a good bet to go with it.
Sorry I can't offer any more concrete help, if you can provide some more detailed information then I can make further suggestions. All I can say for now is to connect the sensor to an AU input and set the input configuration to Thermistor to turn on the pull up resistor, this should give the cleanest signal. Once we see the signal we can work out what to do with it
Cheers,
Pat.
Re: Cam slot or thoot?
Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:20 pm
Thanks Pat I will check that. More questions.... as I'm preparing the setup for a VW 4 cylinder engine here some doubts :
The second thooth after the gap in the crank wheel is 77 degrees BTDC, so I've to input 283 (360-77) in the "engine configuration/generic crank and cam setup/crank reference thoot angle" OK? but the what is the "sensor/crank position/sensor A/Reference angle adder" ???? what I've to input there?
By the way how do I run a wasted spark batched fuel engine with NO cam sensor? (just thinking of using the next Solaris in a Saxo 16V engine) which is the right engine configuration?
Thanks for now....
The second thooth after the gap in the crank wheel is 77 degrees BTDC, so I've to input 283 (360-77) in the "engine configuration/generic crank and cam setup/crank reference thoot angle" OK? but the what is the "sensor/crank position/sensor A/Reference angle adder" ???? what I've to input there?
By the way how do I run a wasted spark batched fuel engine with NO cam sensor? (just thinking of using the next Solaris in a Saxo 16V engine) which is the right engine configuration?
Thanks for now....
Re: Cam slot or thoot?
Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:02 am
fortran,
The sensor A/B reference angle adder is there, if memory serves, for fine tuning. For example, the Subaru manual indicates teeth at 97, 65 and 32 degrees BTDC on each stroke on the G10 pattern, ergo one would use the manufacturer supplied angles in the reference angle, but manufacturing tolerances may show that the actual timing is a little out, so you could correct for this in the adder. Furthermore most OEM engines don't have a redundant crank sensor, but the S6 does support this with the A/B setup, you can have another sensor mounted round from the first one so if it fails, the car can still drive, you just run off the second sensor. Obviously it cannot be in the same place as the first one so you have to tell the ECU where it actually is For your application, if you don't have any hard data from the manufacturer just leave them as zero and adjust your reference angle instead.
We do not recommend running in sync 360, ie we would always suggest trying to go fully sequential if possible. However if it is not, then you have some options depending on the way the car is wired. In any event you should still configure the engine correctly, ie a 4 cylinder SI engine and configure the correct firing order (1-3-4-2 for an I4). Now the wasted spark is easy, assign Cylinder 1 and Cylinder 4 ignition to IGN1 and Cylinder 2 and Cylinder 3 to IGN2. Now for the injectors, it's really a case of whether there are 2 or 4 trigger wires (if there is only 1 then you really should rewire it). If there are 4 wires then just connect and configure normally, ie Cylinder 1 -> INJ1, Cylinder 2 -> INJ2 etc the ECU will take care of batch firing when in sync 360 for you. If there are only 2 wires then you would connect Cylinder 1 and Cylinder 4 to INJ1 and Cylinder 2 and Cylinder 3 to INJ2, remember that the ECU will batch fire for you (ie it will fire INJ1&INJ4 together and INJ2&INJ3 together) so not having INJ3 and INJ4 connected will make no difference.
Hope this helps,
Pat.
The sensor A/B reference angle adder is there, if memory serves, for fine tuning. For example, the Subaru manual indicates teeth at 97, 65 and 32 degrees BTDC on each stroke on the G10 pattern, ergo one would use the manufacturer supplied angles in the reference angle, but manufacturing tolerances may show that the actual timing is a little out, so you could correct for this in the adder. Furthermore most OEM engines don't have a redundant crank sensor, but the S6 does support this with the A/B setup, you can have another sensor mounted round from the first one so if it fails, the car can still drive, you just run off the second sensor. Obviously it cannot be in the same place as the first one so you have to tell the ECU where it actually is
For your application, if you don't have any hard data from the manufacturer just leave them as zero and adjust your reference angle instead.We do not recommend running in sync 360, ie we would always suggest trying to go fully sequential if possible. However if it is not, then you have some options depending on the way the car is wired. In any event you should still configure the engine correctly, ie a 4 cylinder SI engine and configure the correct firing order (1-3-4-2 for an I4). Now the wasted spark is easy, assign Cylinder 1 and Cylinder 4 ignition to IGN1 and Cylinder 2 and Cylinder 3 to IGN2. Now for the injectors, it's really a case of whether there are 2 or 4 trigger wires (if there is only 1 then you really should rewire it). If there are 4 wires then just connect and configure normally, ie Cylinder 1 -> INJ1, Cylinder 2 -> INJ2 etc the ECU will take care of batch firing when in sync 360 for you. If there are only 2 wires then you would connect Cylinder 1 and Cylinder 4 to INJ1 and Cylinder 2 and Cylinder 3 to INJ2, remember that the ECU will batch fire for you (ie it will fire INJ1&INJ4 together and INJ2&INJ3 together) so not having INJ3 and INJ4 connected will make no difference.
Hope this helps,
Pat.