Hi guys, I'm trying to make the car as bomb proof as possible and was planning to fit a wideband AFR gauge to monitor the AFR along with a knock link to protect from det.
I understand the Syvecs can accept a wideband sensor, I guess while not showing me the AFR it will allow the ECU to protect the engine by adjusting fueling etc. if it runs too rich/lean which would be faster than I could react while driving.
Also would this protect the engine in case of poor fuel (e.g the crap they sell in Belgium enroute to the ring!).
Wideband
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pat
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Re: Wideband
Hi BlueBugEye!
All of the Syvecs ECUs can run full time wideband AFR control, they only really differ in the number of sensors they natively support. The S4 and S6 have a single NTK UEGO Wideband Lambda Sensor interface on them, whilst the S8 has two such interfaces. This means they can be directly connected to such a sensor / sensors without additional external interface circuitry. In addition to this, any spare analogue input may be used to get a wideband lambda signal into the ECU in the event that no NTK sensor is available but some alternative is, such as a Bosch LSU 4 being controlled by something like an Innovite LC-1 controller. A 0-5V signal that represents the AFR is fed from the LC-1 into the ECU and it uses it just like it would a directly attached NTK sensor.
If you want to use a gauge then it may be better to look at the external type, some of the offerings come with gauges, so not only do you get to see the AFR, but the ECU does too and thus it is able to "do something" if the reading isn't right. The final option if you want to see the AFR but want to use the onboard NTK interface is to display the lam1 parameter from the telemetry datastream; something like a MoTeC SDL, AIM MXL Strada or Race Technologies DASH2 electronic dashboard can be configured to accept a Syvecs telemetry stream and can replace your existing dashboard, with the added bonus that it can display "more"
Unfortunately they aren't very wallet friendly, but we're looking into more affordable options for when you don't need the full functionality of a race dash, but you do want to show some additional sensor readings / runtime parameters.
When I mentioned "do something", that is of course configurable. You can run full time or part time lambda control; that is to say there may be areas of the map you don't want wideband control but other areas where you do. Beyond that, the amount of correction that is permitted within the strategy can be different for cruise and full load conditions; typically the amount of full load correction tends to be less.
In the context of bad fuel, that really depends on what is meant by "bad". If it is bad in the sense that the stoichiometric point for the fuel is different to the fuel the car was mapped on then yes, up to the limits defined it will correct the fuelling to make it right again. If, on the other hand, by "bad" you mean that its propensity to knock is greater than the original fuel, then simply maintaining the correct AFR won't "fix" that. What you need to keep the engine safe under conditions of more-knock-prone-fuel is knock control. Fortunately the S6 and S8 come with knock control as standard and will react to knock on a per-cylinder basis, retarding the ignition dynamically to keep the engine running without knock. Please understand, though, that it has its limits. If you map the car on VP Import and then run it on 92 RON and expect the knock control to save the engine, that is perhaps too much to ask. If you normally run on V-Power and put in 97 RON, that it will cope with. It would even cope with 95 RON but you'll get a few couple of big pings before it settles; by default we remove 3 degrees every time a loud ping is heard (NB: that is adjustable on the S8 and also when an S6 has the advanced knock control feature enabled).
Hope this helps,
Pat.
All of the Syvecs ECUs can run full time wideband AFR control, they only really differ in the number of sensors they natively support. The S4 and S6 have a single NTK UEGO Wideband Lambda Sensor interface on them, whilst the S8 has two such interfaces. This means they can be directly connected to such a sensor / sensors without additional external interface circuitry. In addition to this, any spare analogue input may be used to get a wideband lambda signal into the ECU in the event that no NTK sensor is available but some alternative is, such as a Bosch LSU 4 being controlled by something like an Innovite LC-1 controller. A 0-5V signal that represents the AFR is fed from the LC-1 into the ECU and it uses it just like it would a directly attached NTK sensor.
If you want to use a gauge then it may be better to look at the external type, some of the offerings come with gauges, so not only do you get to see the AFR, but the ECU does too and thus it is able to "do something" if the reading isn't right. The final option if you want to see the AFR but want to use the onboard NTK interface is to display the lam1 parameter from the telemetry datastream; something like a MoTeC SDL, AIM MXL Strada or Race Technologies DASH2 electronic dashboard can be configured to accept a Syvecs telemetry stream and can replace your existing dashboard, with the added bonus that it can display "more"
Unfortunately they aren't very wallet friendly, but we're looking into more affordable options for when you don't need the full functionality of a race dash, but you do want to show some additional sensor readings / runtime parameters.When I mentioned "do something", that is of course configurable. You can run full time or part time lambda control; that is to say there may be areas of the map you don't want wideband control but other areas where you do. Beyond that, the amount of correction that is permitted within the strategy can be different for cruise and full load conditions; typically the amount of full load correction tends to be less.
In the context of bad fuel, that really depends on what is meant by "bad". If it is bad in the sense that the stoichiometric point for the fuel is different to the fuel the car was mapped on then yes, up to the limits defined it will correct the fuelling to make it right again. If, on the other hand, by "bad" you mean that its propensity to knock is greater than the original fuel, then simply maintaining the correct AFR won't "fix" that. What you need to keep the engine safe under conditions of more-knock-prone-fuel is knock control. Fortunately the S6 and S8 come with knock control as standard and will react to knock on a per-cylinder basis, retarding the ignition dynamically to keep the engine running without knock. Please understand, though, that it has its limits. If you map the car on VP Import and then run it on 92 RON and expect the knock control to save the engine, that is perhaps too much to ask. If you normally run on V-Power and put in 97 RON, that it will cope with. It would even cope with 95 RON but you'll get a few couple of big pings before it settles; by default we remove 3 degrees every time a loud ping is heard (NB: that is adjustable on the S8 and also when an S6 has the advanced knock control feature enabled).
Hope this helps,
Pat.
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BlueBugEye
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:11 pm
Re: Wideband
Cheers Pat,
Not sure if you remember the car but it's the Blue Bug you mapped for GRD on the crappy APS SR40!
I've already got the Syvecs in the car running the AVCS Heads and forged 2.5.
I just need a Wideband sensor and some wires then and get Simon to enable the wideband in the Ecu, I'll also make sure the advanced Knock control is turned on. What sensor is best to get I know it only supports the NTK ones at present and also what input plug do I need to plug into the ECU? Last question on this, I have a Miltek downpipe which has a Lamda boss already, is this a suitable place for the sensor as it's pretty close to the turbo?
Not sure if you remember the car but it's the Blue Bug you mapped for GRD on the crappy APS SR40!
I've already got the Syvecs in the car running the AVCS Heads and forged 2.5.
I just need a Wideband sensor and some wires then and get Simon to enable the wideband in the Ecu, I'll also make sure the advanced Knock control is turned on. What sensor is best to get I know it only supports the NTK ones at present and also what input plug do I need to plug into the ECU? Last question on this, I have a Miltek downpipe which has a Lamda boss already, is this a suitable place for the sensor as it's pretty close to the turbo?